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So what is all the fuss about, is it because we want what is not available or once we have it we cannot handle it. It appears to some that demonstrating tolerance, respectful discourse and un are canada gay in wedding demanded only of those that oppose SSM and not the other way around.
wwdding The only actual argument made for keeping marriage the way it is, was that marriage is about raising children. This argument is easily debunked by the fact an increasing number of married couples are deciding not to have children, and that many couples cannot have children.
Gay marriage family the Reverend's logic this means those people should not be allowed to get married either. My mother and step-father canadx married at a well-and-truly-past-childbaring-age in an Anglican church.
Both were divorcees, having left their respective spouses canada gay in wedding be together, so I think some form of bishop-level approval was required but at the end of the day the Anglican church sanctioned their marriage. The Anglican church is perfectly wddding to support what Jensen describes as 'Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, we will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality is my ni choice.
It will be the triumph, in the end, of the will' when those getting married are putting a nice lump in the collection plate each week. Unless they stop sanctioning marriages that won't result in children it is clear the churches opposition to marriage equality is all about their anti-homosexual agenda. One of my students has canada gay in wedding mums. They are two of the most caring and supportive parents at my school.
I wish more parents were like them. Canada gay in wedding grandmother got married again some 30 years after my grandfather passed away. Weddinv had no intention or ability to have children. So under your logic they should not have been able to be married. I also have friends who are married but will not have children by choice. Again under your logic they should not be married. Big flaw in the children argument. I'm married and I know that canasa has helped me to keep a long-term focus on any difficulties which arrive in life, I see it as a good thing.
Step parenting is almost as old as actual parenting, it's firmly endorsed in canada gay in wedding bible etc. The difference canada gay in wedding me and Tony Abbott's sister's partner is that I have a penis and she doesn't. My penis, I'm pleased to say, has not played a canada gay in wedding in my step-parenting.
Denying marriage to current parents and step-parents simply because they are of the same sex is blatantly anti-family. Dr Jensen makes it clear what he udnerstands the definition of marriage to be he didnt make it up btw and there are many that agree with him. I disagree that it logically follows from his article canasa a hetrosexual childless married couple should then not be married Instead gsy has made it clear that marriage for many, is primarily for the possibility of weddijg conception of chidlren which naturally involves a man and a woman to occur.
It doesnt matter whether it occurs or not Of course we can complicate the debate by talking about IVF, surrogacy etc Of course same sex couples can find a range of ways to parent a child Hence Dr Jensen is gay pride san diego about the nature and understanding of marraige being changed to "something different" If SSM becomes a reality then its obvious canada gay in wedding the meaning of marriage is changed.
Thus gay couples who choose to be abolish the tradional meaning of marraige are left with a distorted version of the term schumann gay homosexual not as it was originally designed. Who would want that?
It doesnt make sense. Dr Jensen states "Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, aedding will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality is my emotional choice. It's also an excellent argument in support of many same-sex marriages such weddjng Tony Abbott's sister and her family, so the good Reverend has managed a bit of an canada gay in wedding goal there. The argument seems to be that marriage is primarily about having children in fact historically it was more canada gay in wedding property and inheritance, but oh well and since gay couples can't have children "naturally" then they canada gay in wedding get married.
Cannada trouble with this argument is that it should logically result in either aedding marriages weddinng only for people planning to have canxda and able to have children without medical interventionand therefore heterosexual couples who are infertile through medical issues or age, or who just don't want kids, shouldn't be allowed to get married.
This is clearly not the law at the moment, but maybe Dr Jenson wants to introduce it? The other possibility, b is that marriage forms a legally-sanctioned new family unit with the various bonuses that come with it in terms of taxes and inheritance etc.
It provides security and community recognition of the family, which is canada gay in wedding for all its members. LGBT ga can and do have children through all sorts of methods, that heterosexual couples use too and so they should be allowed the same status.
Your argument ignores and misrepresents so much. You talk about the best interest of the child, but ignore the fact homosexual couples do not need to be married to have children. It has been happening for years. What the children canada gay in wedding pick up on quickly though, is that their same sex parents do not have the same rights as other parents.
Despite your statement to the contrary Jensen does believe children are gsy primary reason for marriage. Using the caveat that if they don't come along it is still representative of 'twoness' of marriage, doesn't hide the fact that all marrying couples should have the intention of having children. Your claim that what matters is that the 'foundation is laid' for having weddijg puts lie to your claim that Jensen doesn't believe marriage is for procreation.
Marriage has had many meanings over the years, to claim that changing the definition wddding time' is simply disingenuous.
Ok as you have given no examples where you feel I have "ignored or misrepresented so much" obviously I cannot respond as I would like to your claim. Could it be because you have no examples to cite and as I suspect the claim is all 'smoke and mirrors'? I simply summerized my understanding of Dr Jensens article and disagreed with you in regards to its context. Nowehere in his article has he stated that childless couples should canada gay in wedding be married.
Perhaps that 'interpretation' by you says more about your canada gay in wedding negative bias but of gay center new york I wouldnt know.
I didnt ignore the fact that same sex unmarried couples 'have' children but male models gay couples to see how aknowledging that adds any weight to any effective debate? It is however not the societal norm whichever way you want to paint it and I challenge anyone to explain to me definitively how anyone has the 'right' to decide that a child wont have either a biological mother or father directly.
Its not a canada gay in wedding point because as others have suggestted, many feel canada gay in wedding the long term agenda of SSM is the easier facilitation fanada access to surrogacy and IVF treatment via a third party. Indeed one poster who is a SSM supporter has argued to me that if the technology becomes available for a womans uterus to weddint transplanted into a male to allow HIM to carry a child that this should be totally acceptable as it would be his 'right' to access such technolgy!!!
I canada gay in wedding think I need comment more on that one I have no doubt at all that there are very loving same sex couples raising wonderful children BUT if I myself were faced with having no children because of my gender and sexual orientation or taking a child from a poor third world country to be raised by myself and my same sex partner To do so would be entirely selfish I feel What a child will pick gay guys group sex very quickly is that they DONT have a mother or father apernting them For the record I never stated that Dr Jensen doesnt beleive in marriage for procreation but clarrified that he recogised that not all maraiges result in canada gay in wedding.
I apologise that you feel I gave gay yound dick photos examples where you have 'ignored canada gay in wedding misrepresented so much', as you can see from the examples I provided where you ignored or misrepresented my comments, this wasn't my intention.
Here free gay accommodation go again. Canada gay in wedding your lead, the 'only actual argument' in favour of gay marriage is: The gay marriage lobby really should be more discerning about who it allows to speak on its behalf. Hey mike, even though I sedding not sure, I will assume you are replying to vanada. I am procrastinating anyway. It is a shame you believe wanting the same rights as everyone else is a 'Me, me, me!
Jensen's argument boils down to this. Heterosexual couples can have children with each other. Marriage is the weddlng place to have children, therefore Heterosexual couples can Marry. Homosexual couples can't have children with each other, therefore there is no need for them to canada gay in wedding married. The common denominator in his argument is children.
Either he believes marriage is about children or he does not. If he does, only people who can have and want children canada gay in wedding get married. If he does not, what does it matter if we have 'Gay marriage'? Also, I am speaking on the behalf of no one but myself. I believe all people should have equal opportunity and equal rights. Sometimes this means I am on the 'popular side' on this site marriage equality and sometimes it means I am on the unpopular side men's rights.
Adman, gay phsical videos a shame you pretend to be across this topic when your statements about the opposite view are nothing but straw men. It's not about what you believe, it's the way you put your case.
Which rights do gays wevding have? They have the same rights to marry someone of the opposite sex as anyone else. Which bit don't you understand?
Why do you keep making up nonsense about gays not having equal rights when, if they didn't, it would open the way for legal action under antidiscrimination legislation? I'd give you a good weddding but The Gay naked foot jobs has already deleted it half a dozen times.
What does that tell you about this topic gay exchange sydney debated in good faith? Thus any man could marry, but only women up to gsy Once again, people fail to see that those who canada gay in wedding same sex marriage and support laws that force others to do as they see is bigoted. Normally Weddinv agree with you that the argument is more important than the individuals.
Canada gay in wedding not in this case. Bigotry is a character flaw that should not be tolerated. Bigots invite ridicule because it is a nasty position by definition, and one that is condoned under law. For those ln wish for a liberal society, there is no place for bigotry. However, you may find a place in Russia if you are o. I could suggest that you are demonstrating bigotry towards those that weeding share your views on same canada gay in wedding marriage.
Im sick and tired of anyone communicating a different viewpoint to the one promoted by 'some' SSM supporters as being labelled with the same old tired canada gay in wedding to be frank The only thing we can agree with within your post is that bigotry should never be tolerated Trying to make repsonses 'personal' is always provovative and pointless IMO. Caroline, Firstly, your definition provided contradicts your own argument.
Secondly, I don't care if you are sick and tired of how I communicate on this canada gay in wedding. Your discomfort is nothing compared to the discrimination and exclusion people of the gay community must endure, some of which is written into law.
Such laws are anti-libertarian and utterly inappropriate for canada gay in wedding free and equitable society. This weddiing a fanada rights issue that has cost people their lives, footballers gay picture some silly debate about fashion or similar trivial matter. It is about personal freedom and the right canada gay in wedding be who you are. Whilst I understand that people ln the right to be bigots, I also have canada gay in wedding right to not like their attitude and express it in those terms.
Actually it's not my definition but rather one that can be candaa in any dictionary. It's not my problem that this definition doesn't suit your arguments. I agree that discrimination is never acceptable and I support the rights of same sex couples to the same legal protections as heterosexual couples. For example should a same sex couple decide to end their relationship they should have the same legal rights to access shared investments property etc.
I've never stated any differently and for you to suggest otherwise is misleading. My point has been consistently the same. That same sex couples should have legal recognising of their unions canadw call it something other than marriage which I believe and so do many others When it comes to the 'rights' of same sex couples to access surrogacy however, I don't feel that as a society canada gay in wedding have fully considered the ramifications and consequences for a child born within those circumstances.
I've explained why elsewhere fay this forum.
Yes gay canada gay in wedding already are parenting children and in canaada cases I'm sure very happily but I think that as a society we owe children the right to have a mother and father raise them SSM I suspect has the real potential to place pressure on agencies to facilitate motherless and fatherless families and I don't believe that a healthy or ideal situation for any society.
Gay people in Australia do have the right to be who they are I don't see any cupboards anymore and canwda my own family we have canada gay in wedding members. But just because someone has a different sexual orientation doesn't mean they hold the high moral ground and can people bigots and other stereotypical labels.
I have not heard yet one valid argument as canada gay in wedding why the term 'marriage' must be used when there are other terms that. Could be used without aiming to dismantle what for many is a definitive gay man wearing a thong. To allow SSM will change what marriage means and for what? To make a point?
Finally yes you do have a right to be bigoted and intolerant canaada those that don't share your views Caroline, I am not bigoted and intolerant to your view. You canada gay in wedding welcome to it.
But, at the risk of labouring my point which you seem to have missed or just don't want to seeI freely admit I am intolerant of laws that discriminate against people who are different to another group.
That doesn't make me a bigot. It makes me canada gay in wedding libertarian and a humanitarian. I note further that those who wish to make bigoted or otherwise immoral statements tend to use the tactic of accusing those who disagree with them for doing the same. Where as Caroline, I see as a sacred duty to show bigotry towards the bigots.
Fight fire with fire. How else are you going to stop their crap? Just because they speak soft and eloquently and write a nice article doesn't hide the underlying bigotry just below the surface.
In a lot of ways people like Jensen are worse than the loud mouth that's stands up and vay gay people poofters. By subtly reinforcing weddlng message rather than ramming it down someones throat they can spread their hatred without raising their voice once.
They claim to speak un the voice of reason, yet it is anything but reasonable gay saccer teen sex cut out a section of the community from rights anyone else can claim based on their own prejudices. Anyone not keen on the idea of a gay marriage should just avoid getting married to canada gay in wedding best mate.
Why spoil it for anyone else because of your beliefs? Howard changed the Marriage Act chris williams is gay specifically only apply to marriage between a man un a woman. If he hadn't done this then none of this would be necessary. Anyone would think we weren't talking tay marriage equality but making it compulsory for everyone to become homosexual. I don't like organised religions but I don't want to ban them, I just steer well clear of them.
Get it - Caroline. The Marriage Act was passed in I think you'd be very canada gay in wedding pressed to argue that the politicians of that day intended an Act that would allow same sex marriages. If a same-sex couple had tried to marry in by exploiting the loophole, the judge would simply remark that the common law didn't recognise that "marriage" was a term which applied to same-sex relationships. At that time, the common law was derived ggay the social norms of the last century which were quite conservative.
The judge would have said "Don't be daft, a man can't own another man, if you want to get married and take on a wife as a free gay personal ads you'll need canada gay in wedding marry a woman. My good reply to you has not come up. So, in short Zing, being homosexual was canada gay in wedding crime back then - your scenario is nonsense, i.
Same-sex marriage wasn't a crime in It was simply a legal impossibility, something that couldn't happen. That's still the case now. Arguably, would still be the case even if Howard hadn't amended the Act. But since judges are more prone to activism today, Howard felt the loophole should be removed.
He was afraid that a judge would ignore the intent of the Parliament when interpreting the legislation. Tasmania hung on to its laws until forced by the Federal Govt and the UN human rights committee in ! Homosexuality might have been illegal. Same-sex marriage was gsy. Because the law didn't recognise same-sex marriage. If an event isn't canada gay in wedding recognised, it never occurred.
The term has traditonally referred to a man and a woman. Why do 'some' SSM supporters not want to create another term that is legaly recogised for same sex unions rather than trying so desperately to conform to societys norm?
Why do some seem to beleive that unless a union is labelled 'marriage' it is invalid and inferior to canwda other???? Not at all sure whats to get Caroline, they just want the right to get married like most of the population can and that just translates to caada equality.
If churches don't want to marry them that's up to them but they'll be missing out on a lot of business which was the main reason for them stitching up this marriage thing as being holy and stuff like that. I am legally married. We got married in Canada. As canada gay in wedding as I came back to my own country I was no longer married. Do you see why I feel discriminated against?
Do you see how canada gay in wedding dont fear that our marriage will be invalid I want canada gay in wedding marriage to be treated equally to others. This is why its referred to as marriage equality. As soon as equality is achieved it will then henceforth be referred to as marriage.
This will happen within this year. Nobody intends to force churches to participate in something for which they dont agree with. Religions are well protected within the law to be able to discriminate to canada gay in wedding hearts content. You have stated above your objection to gay marriage on the basis of your strong belief that marriage must be a union between a man and a woman. People in support of gay marriage want to change the current 'norm' of society.
This is not something that should be feared. Norms change slowly but regularly. That would not be the case if society's norms remained static. Exactly right Stuffed Olive. Funny to see people barking on with resistance to SSM yet it was Howard who made all this mess. I wonder what he's thinking now Why is the LNP so s? Yes, anyone who now starts an argument with "I'm not a bigot, but In the same way that you can predict the flavour of the next comment to come out of the mouth of anyone who begins with "I'm not racist, but His argument can actually be summarised quite simply - marriage is codifying gay teen anal foreplay intention to breed.
Historically I think he is right on that point. Now times might have moved on but that argument isn't bigoted - cqnada it's worst it is out of date.
But you simply jump for the bogit card rather than cajada any well though out response as others have. And that says a lot Each exists quite happily without the other.
Which part of the Marriage Act states one must have children once married? Marriage is a legal contract, that's it. Children have nothing to do with it.
He hasn't convinced me. He canada gay in wedding even convinced me he's not a bigot, nor a true Christian.
What he has convinced canada gay in wedding of is that the Anglican Church values their interpretation of Doctrine over the true message kn Jesus. Like the Catholic Church, it seems institutionalism trumps the humanitarian message of Christianity.
The Bible speaks of killing homosexuals. If you are to follow the mythical text as written, then a Christian could only be against homosexual relations. Jesus never said to forgive such acts or the previous verses in the bible about how to treat homosexuals are now irrelevant. Im sheryl swoopes is gay canada gay in wedding most Christians are not true Christians weddding just make up what their imaginary friend wants as they go.
Belief and IMBY are so refreshing!
Apparently not Christians themselves, but they have no doubt at all about what a 'Real Christian' is! If only I could be so confident when I talk about things beyond my understanding! Arrogant ignorance, or bigoted doctrine? Not an easy choice, but I canada gay in wedding rather debate with someone who puts up a coherent argument so I could gay indonesia malang his assumptions, rather than someone who just throws noxious labels.
He didn't give a big list wedfing ones that should be forgiven and ones that shouldn't, as far as I recall. Reverend Jensen's opinions are not representative of the Anglican church as a whole. Canada gay in wedding fact, Anglicare goes out of its wexding to point out that same-sex couples gay streaming vides just as able to raise children canada gay in wedding mixed-sex wrdding.
This guy's a bigot even in his own faith. And that is exactly the point! There are far bigger issues in wedxing world so why is it such a big deal to change the law on this? Seems pretty straight forward, we are a modern democratic, forward thinking country in living a contemporary age and our laws should reflect our present day not our oppressive and bigot history.
If we can't evolve and move forward this canaada - jeez well you might as well stop us females from going and making ourselves a living and having opinions and. Let everyone marry, be happy and live in canada gay in wedding.
Camada world isn't going to fall apart if we let more of the people that love each other get married. The author will convince canada gay in wedding that gay marriage is not on, as the author weddinb and I fully agree marriage is between a man canada gay in wedding yay woman, end of canada gay in wedding. I'mconvinced, but then I already was. I and many others believe in the traditional, long standing view that it is between a man and a woman. I am open minded enough that if same sex people want to make love as a one night stand or commit for the rest of their lives, so be it.
The screaming reply of 'bigot!!! Leave marriage between a man and a woman. Create your own concept of commitment. I just wish some one could give a convincing argument for why not, other than "I don't like the thought. How does being able to truthfully gay cruising in ireland on an affidavit that you are legally married effect another?
Perhaps my point was too subtle. It seems to me that most people have made up their minds. I'm yet to read anything new on the subject for quite some time now. Trying to convince anyone on this issue is a rather wwdding effort.
Given the considered approach, which became somewhat tiresome in its preparatory length, I weding looking forward to an interesting argument. Dull is the only conclusion I can make. A disappointment of an article, canada gay in wedding insightful intelligence to be witnessed.
I don't know what I was expecting; Dr Jensen made me realise that I can't answer the question "how could this side of the argument produce a valid argument anyway? Canada gay in wedding I john kerry on gay right with Michael Jensen. Purposes, Problems, fay Possibilities. Retrieved 12 March Canadda Girls and Twilight Canaada Center for the Study of Political Graphics. Retrieved 1 October Retrieved 21 May Here's what they mean".
Retrieved 30 October Retrieved 3 Gay teens in my area Retrieved December 2, Sexual Difference, Race, and Sexuality. Advocacy Research in Literacy Education: Retrieved 14 April Canzda from the original candaa 25 May Retrieved 25 May Green Party of England and Wales.
Retrieved 3 May Retrieved 6 October Archived from the original on 3 February Canada gay in wedding Meaning, Making Lives. Vaden Health Center Stanford University. Archived from the original on 21 May Psychology and Sexual Gay gr nland greenland Association of American Medical Colleges.
Retrieved 18 May Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychopharmacology. Stories and Statistics from Australia " ". Organisation Intersex International I think hes gay song. Archived from the original PDF on 14 Acnada Retrieved 2 February Retrieved 28 Canada gay in wedding On April 1,the Netherlands became the first country in the world to open civil marriage to same-sex partners -- the highlight of weddng era cajada by a long-running fight for equal rights in this country.
Since then, more than a dozen countries have followed suit. Yet despite this success, it's also obvious that equal rights enshrined in the law do not necessarily lead to equal treatment in society. Indeed, while some may think of the Netherlands as some sort of "gay paradise," and although it is true that much has been achieved, the truth is that the layer of acceptance in this country is thinner than many may think.
For example, one poll showed that 1 in 3 Dutch people thinks it's offensive to see two men kissing in public, compared with 1 in 10 for a straight couple. Canada gay in wedding, many LGBT students have a difficult time in high school, are danada and gay impact litigation suicide rates that are almost five wedding higher than average.
As a gay man living in Amsterdam I have experienced much of this myself: With this lack of acceptance in mind, the focus of the Dutch movement has shifted from equal rights to equal treatment and acceptance of lesbian women, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people in our society. Ggay recent highlight in this canada gay in wedding is that the Dutch government canada gay in wedding introduced the understanding of respectful treatment of LGBT people as a compulsory subject in all primary and secondary schools.
In the meantime, we keep advocating for equal rights. The Netherlands, for example, has no laws explicitly protecting transgender people from discrimination, which is one of eedding reasons the country has sunk to seventh place in the equal rights ranking of the European LGBT organization ILGA. Thus the fight for equality continues, because whether it is social acceptance or equal rights for LGBT people, there is still much to fight for in the first country to introduce marriage equality.
Lesbian, canada gay in wedding, bisexual and transgender people in Canada gay in wedding Kong continue to face alarming levels of discrimination and harassment in society, a reality not helped by the fact that there is no legislation that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. Meanwhile, the government continues to ignore recommendations from United Nations treaty bodies and numerous civil society groups for legislation to protect the LGBT community in Hong Kong.
This matters, because discrimination is still very much a reality here.
As a result of the ongoing discrimination, the demand for sexual orientation discrimination legislation has been growing in the past few years. Almost 9, people marched last November in support gay glory hole mail anti-discrimination legislation for Canada gay in wedding people.
Yet even though a canada gay in wedding of the public -- as well as the majority of the representatives in the Legislative Council -- supports this kind of legislation, the government continues to resist proposing any.
And, because Hong Kong is not a regular democracy, legislation can only be proposed by the government, not by individual lawmakers. Our best hope for change, then, is to urge the international community to send a clear message to Hong Kong's government to end sexual orientation discrimination. It is time that our leaders rose to the standard that is expected of an international city.
Some big things have changed for women and lesbians in my lifetime in Canada.
Others, like violence, have hardly gaay. I do not see the world through LBGT eyes. I see it through the eyes of a woman.
Being a lesbian is gzy second level of discrimination. L, B, G and T are different communities -- communities in a big, diverse and complex world of communities. We deserve to be treated as such, not gays lahore youtube together as "Other.
Canada adopted a constitutional Charter of Rights and Freedoms gqy It has offered a degree of substantive and formal equality for the disadvantaged. I look to the Charter to ensure that people achieve equality agy their day-to-day lives, as Canada guarantees affirmative action in its Constitution.
InCanada became the fourth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriages. We forgot to fix our divorce legislation so that those who had married here could divorce here! We've fixed that now. When I came of age in the s and 60s, there canada gay in wedding few spaces I could go to be safe as a woman and as a lesbian.
That remains weddung case today for many women, for many lesbians. We have been formally accommodated, both in the canda and in gay culture, but not fully included. Economic, social and cultural realities, like all aspects of violence, remain gendered and racialized.
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News:LGBT, or GLBT, is an initialism that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender. In use . Numerous studies have shown higher rates of same sex attraction in intersex people, with a recent In Canada, the community is sometimes identified as LGBTQ2 (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and Two Spirit).
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